Rough timeline for UltraVNC with Vista Support

[sparks_1972]

I was wondering if there was a rough idea to when UltraVNC may be available with vista support. I have a number of machines that are running test automation and currently use UltraVNC to connect to the machine to see the test status and to triage failures. Obviously now with the need to support vista we have an issue. We have tried using RDP but that interferes with the tests that are currently executing. I noticed the posting for PCHelpWare which is in Beta, but that requires that you disable UAC which is not an option for us...

Any other alternatives, or a rough timeline on when we may be able to support vista with UltraVNC would be very welcome.

[Rudi De Vos]

Don't know... even MS remote assistance is not able to click when UAC
happen. The MS solution is to disable it

Posible we can only inject keys at driver level, but that's a hell to program.

[sbostedor]

I notice that the root cause is that MS has prevented applications starting as a service from accessing the desktop. Is it possible for VNC to auto-start in some other way than a service to regain access to the desktop?

Perhaps there is a new way to auto-load things in Vista or we can make use of the run key in the registry?

I will test some of these scenarios soon but if someone beats me to it...

[sjsobol]

I notice that the root cause is that MS has prevented applications starting as a service from accessing the desktop. Is it possible for VNC to auto-start in some other way than a service to regain access to the desktop?

Perhaps there is a new way to auto-load things in Vista or we can make use of the run key in the registry?

I will test some of these scenarios soon but if someone beats me to it...

Actually, we have a windows vista PC running at a client's place, we just put the vnc server shortcut in the Startup group... of course you may also need to check your security settings to make sure it can run.

[raindrop]

I notice that the root cause is that MS has prevented applications starting as a service from accessing the desktop. Is it possible for VNC to auto-start in some other way than a service to regain access to the desktop?

Perhaps there is a new way to auto-load things in Vista or we can make use of the run key in the registry?

I will test some of these scenarios soon but if someone beats me to it...

I think Microsoft had the responsibility to harden security and reduce services running level, after all the viruses and Trojans that many of us suffered in the last years.

As insider I must say that Microsoft is taking security as top priority (from the design phases to the post release and maintenance phases)
This is why Windows Vista is different than its predecessor, with the first OS that provide low privilege for running applications/services/browser and processes and users being able to run as standard users (none administrators)

ISV’s including the wonderful team behind UltraVNC need to adjust their products to the new kernel environment, in order to help users to enjoy this great product in much better and safer OS
In the long run, users will have better products, with hopefully little less things to worry about

[sjsobol]

I think Microsoft had the responsibility to harden security and reduce services running level, after all the viruses and Trojans that many of us suffered in the last years.

As insider I must say that Microsoft is taking security as top priority (from the design phases to the post release and maintenance phases)

And there are plenty of us who say "about time!"

However, there are issues with the way the security is implemented. Aside from not being able to run UltraVNC as a service, if User Account Control is on and the user gets a security popup while I'm remotely connected via VNC, I get kicked off.

We turn UAC off on our clients' computers, but in my opinion we can only get away with this because we are their outsourced IT department and as such, we can exert a lot of control over their PC environments.

It's not something that's wise to do, in general.

ISV’s including the wonderful team behind UltraVNC need to adjust their products to the new kernel environment

If that can be done without breaking lots of stuff inside UltraVNC, great. (I speak as a UVNC user. I am not one of the developers)

[raindrop]

sjsobol, I think UAC is not easy to get along with, but highly recommend in order to have better protection and saftey of the PC for the users.

It is a must have for most novice Vista users (I keep it as well)

I am sure that in just some time from today, this product and others will live side by side with UAC

[Rudi De Vos]

Vista support is almost working... I think we found a solution for UAC access. Still need to test the theory

[rstedmond]

Rudi De Vos, I would be very happy to test it for you.[/quote]

[Mavantix]

I'll volunteer for testing too. I just found this thread because I have been getting disconnected from Vista computers while working on them, only to finally realize it's UAC doing it. UAC will be the death of us all.

[Rudi De Vos]

The UAC seems now to be working in Vista.
The test application i have is based on PcHelpware, for UltraVNC the registry is another issue that need to be solved.

I'm composing a package and also gonne try to sign it with our new
offical certificat.

Give me a few days...

[smcmanus]

Getting UVNC to work with Vista would be great. I personally wouldn't recomend worrying about UAC. (anybody who is serious about getting work done, and have a functional computer will Disable UAC in my opinion ). The only fixes I would like to see,
1) the Service functional,
2) I get some lagg when someone UVNCs to my machine
3) The Single Click App Doesn't Work with Windows KoolAid.

<--- Vista UAC

Steve
(Vista Business User Against my will)

[Mavantix]

I think UAC support is important because we use UltraVNC to support people who might not nessarily have it disabled. Futhermore, it requires a reboot to disable UAC, which if you're trying to support a network user getting an error and needs you to look at it, you can't have them turn off UAC and reboot in hopes the error will still be there when they boot back up.

I do agree about usability, UAC will be disabled on every Vista machine I setup. It's a stupid "feature". Besides, if Rudi De Vos can write some code to get around it, then what's going to stop a virus or tojan from doing the same? After all, wasn't that the reason for UAC, so unwarranted changes wouldn't get made to your PC? Phht.

[Rudi De Vos]

I got some test app for Vista...

Based on PcHelpware, but it use the vnc style.
Server run and listen, viewer enter ip and connect.

**To test
+Installer
( check if driver and service are installed)
+Vista logon (mouse keyboard)
+Vista UAC popup (mouse keyboard)
+Vista elevated window, like service manager

+Uninstall
( check if driver and service are uninstalled)

The server is started via a service, to stop the server you need to stop the service (program menu), else it auto restart.

To get the best feedback, i will send the setup.exe.zip via mail 1.6MB.
Please pm

I didn't tested it on XP, so possible the new Vista service optionsµ
will not work on XP, current there is no OS detection in the code.

You need to enter the ip address via the viewer tray menu...

[Rudi De Vos]

Mails seems to fail to deliver...

Link:
http://sc.uvnc.com/PcHelpWare_Setup.zip

WARNING: ONLY use for testing
*NO encryption
*NO password

[kingbear]

I tried it. Installed ok. Here are my comments.

Service name is named something weird like MV_....

When running Start PCHelpWare Service or Stop PcHelpWare Service, you must right click and select "Run as Administrator" or else they both will not work.

I was successfully able to view Vista's desktop from another machine. When I tried running something that needed UAC, when the UAC popup came, I immediately got kicked off with an error saying PcHelpWare has stopped running (on the viewing machine).

I was successfully able to view the Vista login screen, but when I logged in I got kicked out the same as above.

While viewing the Vista desktop, if I pressed CTRL-ALT-DEL on the server, the viewer quit the same as above.

Clearly, this is not working well for me.

My only option was to reinstall UVNC 1.02 and instead of starting WinVNC as a service, I threw the icon in my startup and it works excellent. I know that if I'm logged out this will not work - and that's exactly what you guys are trying to fix here.

Allow me to correct myself - I just tried something. When using the viewer in Vista to view an XP machine, it works beautifully. When viewing a Vista machine, it logs on fine, but the screen updates are VERY slow (even on a LAN). Correction: It updates exactly every 20 seconds and ONLY every 20 seconds. I've tried this even with the Windows Sidebar off. Maybe it's the Mirror driver - do you have any recommendations? But what's cool is that the background dissappears but Aero stays on and you can even see it on the viewer. Of course when a UAC window comes up, the viewer immediately shuts down - or, rather on screen refresh whenever the next one is.

If you would like me to try anything else, please don't hesitate to reply to this post.

[Rudi De Vos]

Vista has 2 desktops,
normal= where the apps run
secure=logon and uac

When the desktop switch, the server is stopped and restarted in the other
desktop.

Normal, the viewer wait until the server is restarted and continue.
I only tested this when secure desktop resolution == default desktop resolution.
When secure and default desktop has a diffirent resolution/depth, viewer stop.
( Still need to make that part working)

If you manual reconnect the viewer, are you able to control all windows
logon/normal/uac

[Rudi De Vos]

Just wondering, are you testing with the new viewer (installed on the server desktop during setup).

[kingbear]

Vista has 2 desktops,
If you manual reconnect the viewer, are you able to control all windows
logon/normal/uac

Interesting I don't believe I tried reconnecting when just the UAC popup was there. I've already uninstalled it and installed the regular UltraVNC, but maybe I'll try it. I don't know what you mean by different resolutions, but mine just errors out when UAC pops up.

Just wondering, are you testing with the new viewer (installed on the server desktop during setup).

Yes I'm using the PcHelpWare setup you posted a few posts earlier, and I copied the new viewer from the server desktop to my other computer.

[kingbear]

I just tried something. When using the viewer in Vista to view an XP machine, it works beautifully. When viewing a Vista machine, it logs on fine, but the screen updates are VERY slow (even on a LAN). Correction: It updates exactly every 20 seconds and ONLY every 20 seconds. I've tried this even with the Windows Sidebar off. Maybe it's the Mirror driver - do you have any recommendations?

It wasn't the Mirror driver. I just tried it without it and it still only updates every 20 seconds.

[kingbear]

I hate to say this on a forum for UltraVNC, but I just tried RealVNC Enterprise and it works like a charm. Even with the UAC popups and even with logging on/off and even running as a service. I found a few small problems but I'm not gonna mention them here - I'll let the folks at RealVNC take care care of that.

Either way, at least we know there's hope! I have UVNC installed on many many systems and I like it better so I'm hoping that soon we will have a fully functioning version of UVNC for Vista.

[raindrop]

Vista has 2 desktops,
normal= where the apps run
secure=logon and uac

When the desktop switch, the server is stopped and restarted in the other
desktop.

Normal, the viewer wait until the server is restarted and continue.
I only tested this when secure desktop resolution == default desktop resolution.
When secure and default desktop has a diffirent resolution/depth, viewer stop.
( Still need to make that part working)

If you manual reconnect the viewer, are you able to control all windows
logon/normal/uac

unfortunately it didn't work for me either...

[Rudi De Vos]

Did you try the latest version
[post=37221][/post]

This one was tested on XP and Vista (server), viewer on XP
+tested with server resolution change ( via display properties)
+tested with and without driver installed ( you need to disbale the driver after installation)
+tested user switching (admin and guest account)
+test uac and logon

Please try to give as many info as possible when it don't work, so we know at least where to look for.

Please keep an eye on the viewer title. It indicate what's going on.
system win ( runnning as system on secure desktop)
username default ( runnning as normal user on the default desktop)
During desktop switch, you should see " security changing" and "encryption key exchange"...


Thanks for all feedback.
Rudi

[kingbear]

Hey Rudi,

I would much rather test a version of UltraVNC as opposed to PCHelpware acting as a VNC server. Is there any way way to integrate all that you are doing into UltraVNC so we can test it the regular way?

Thanks

-Eli

[bevtech]

Ultra VNC is being worked on by Ultra Sam and information on it will be released upon completion.. Rudi is working on the Pchelpware application..

[Rudi De Vos]

The integration in UltraVnc is in progress, but it use exact the same
method as we use in PcHelpware.
If the PcHelpware connections fails, it will also fail in UltraVnc.

For UltraVnc we also need to modify the registry access ( password,port, etc..) This part was responsible for a lot of trouble in the older releases.
When testing the UltraVnc version, failure could be related to the new service or registry access etc...

We test it in PcHelpWare and move it to UltraVNC, to complicate to try
everything in UltraVNC for a first shot.

[kingbear]

We test it in PcHelpWare and move it to UltraVNC, to complicate to try
everything in UltraVNC for a first shot.

Got it.

[OfficialGuest]

Any more news on this? The front page post on the 10th suggests a new release is imminent, but 2 weeks later the wait continues!

Much thanks for any info.

[dengit]

and another week...

[Saullasky]

Some news ?