Update: UltraVNC 1.4.3.6 and UltraVNC SC 1.4.3.6: https://forum.uvnc.com/viewtopic.php?t=37885
Important: Please update to latest version before to create a reply, a topic or an issue: https://forum.uvnc.com/viewtopic.php?t=37864

Join us on social networks and share our announcements:
- Website: https://uvnc.com/
- GitHub: https://github.com/ultravnc
- Mastodon: https://mastodon.social/@ultravnc
- Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/ultravnc1
- X/Twitter: https://x.com/ultravnc1
- Reddit community: https://www.reddit.com/r/ultravnc
- OpenHub: https://openhub.net/p/ultravnc

Using repeater on the internet (not DMZ)

Post Reply
Rnon
Posts: 5
Joined: 2007-02-27 11:21

Using repeater on the internet (not DMZ)

Post by Rnon »

sorry guys, a little confused with all those options, I wanted to have something clear before I dig deeper and deeper.

I'm usin UVNC for about a year now to connect to all computers in my lan with a great success. I did try once to connect to other computers through the internet using the NAT2NAT with no great success.

What I wanted to do now is to try useing the PHW to connect between two computers behind NAT.
The way I was hoping I can use is somehow close to the way NAT2NAT works (except here I was hoping I can overcome the poor connection to the NH using my own Linux web server as a repeater).
I'm not sure I'm not mixing everything here, I was looking at the sketches of PHW and one of them (SC - II) looks like the configuration I'd like to use.

From everything I was reading so far, I got totally confused:
Looking at the sketches, I was thinking it should be possible.
But reading some more, I started thinking the purpose of the repeater is to be behind the router in order to be able to get the info from the web using the open ports and forwared the info to the relevant computer(s).

I did not get a clear answer :( , I was looking to find in the docs as first thing the general idea of each was the the differences (UVNC, NH, SC, REPEATER, PHW - lots of GREAT solutions and big mess)

TIP: I was reading a lot of RTFM like answers in the forum (I tottaly understand you guys buy meybe one reason is that the main page of PHW http://www.uvnc.com/pchelpware/ does not link to the docs (I've found there a link to the same page and another one to the forum - only there did I find a link to the docs).

Bottom line, I would only like to know if what I'm looking for is doable - I don't mind then to deep dive into the docs till I get the fireworks.
petoulachi
8
8
Posts: 20
Joined: 2007-02-18 11:22

Re: Using repeater on the internet (not DMZ)

Post by petoulachi »

I'll try to answer to your questions, but as I'm french my english is not really perfect :P

So first of all, I think that your solution will use a Repeater using mode 2. In mode 2. When you want to take control of a remote computer, you need to connect to the repeater, and the remote PC also need to connect to the repeater, given the same ID. Then, the repeater will act as a proxy. With this configuration, you will not have to configure anything on the two PC.
Indeed, it's on the repeater server that you will have to configure and open 2 ports on the router : one port for VNC Server, one port for VNC Viewver (don't forget that when using mode 2, the VNC Server is on the remote PC using inverse connection).

Supposing that you want to host the Repeater on your network, you will have to configure on your router 1 port to the Repeater server (it's 5500 by default). Then, your client will have to connect to your repeater (port 5500), and you have to connect to your repeater (port 5901 by default).
So if you are not on the same network then the repeater server, you will have to open another port : 5901.

Hope this will help !
Rnon
Posts: 5
Joined: 2007-02-27 11:21

Re: Using repeater on the internet (not DMZ)

Post by Rnon »

WOW... thank you very much petoulachi.

Just when I got totally convinced its not doable to use the PHWare the way I want I got your reply.

I'll now get to work on it but I wanted to ask one last question about the concept if you guys don't mind:

Why using that strange "inverse connection" concept?
Took me some time to get used to it (I must say that the docs were very CLEAR about it - I just had to except what was clearly there).

When I use UVNC to connect to my LAN computers, the concept is clear - the computers are listening all the time and I choose (when I feel like it) to initiate the connection and check them (much more intuitive and makes total sense).

Connection to the remote computer via remote Repeater is also reasonable (the way that petoulachi nicely explained, thank you again).

BUT if I wanted to host my Repeater in my own LAN, I need to permanently Open Ports on my router Repeator to the Repeator that is forwarding those ports to my computer??? :o
AM I RIGHT?
And if I am, why do I need Repeater? (if I choose to open those porst and I'm using one computer to view many other remote computers, I may just forward those ports/that port directly yo him....

I just wanted to understand the concept (and the motivation) better. I feel better somewhat to use a remote server that is protected as a server and is having a static IP anyway.
The way suggested by petoulachi is just what I wanted and the concept really remind the NAT2NAT I was talking about except thise time, I'm hosting the NH - many people were asking for that in the past.

Thank you.
petoulachi
8
8
Posts: 20
Joined: 2007-02-18 11:22

Re: Using repeater on the internet (not DMZ)

Post by petoulachi »

Rnon wrote:WOW... thank you very much petoulachi.
you'r welcome
Rnon wrote: I'll now get to work on it but I wanted to ask one last question about the concept if you guys don't mind:

Why using that strange "inverse connection" concept?
Took me some time to get used to it (I must say that the docs were very CLEAR about it - I just had to except what was clearly there).

When I use UVNC to connect to my LAN computers, the concept is clear - the computers are listening all the time and I choose (when I feel like it) to initiate the connection and check them (much more intuitive and makes total sense).
Inverse connection concept is ESSENTIAL if you don't want to configure anything (NAT) on the VNC Server : indeed, the server will initiate the connection, so NAT will not block it.
Don't forget when using inverse connection, the server isn't waiting for a viewer connection as it's the server himself that will connect to the viewer (if you are not using Repeater). So, you cannot use inverse connection and take a remote control without any action from the remote PC, as the VNC Server is not running all the time as a Windows Service.
Rnon wrote: Connection to the remote computer via remote Repeater is also reasonable (the way that petoulachi nicely explained, thank you again).

BUT if I wanted to host my Repeater in my own LAN, I need to permanently Open Ports on my router Repeator to the Repeator that is forwarding those ports to my computer??? :o
AM I RIGHT?
If you want to host the Repeater on your LAN, you will only need to open 1 port (5500) and forward it to the Repeater Server. then, the remote PC will launch VNC Server using inverse connection, and going to initiate connection with you repeater on the 5500 port.
Rnon wrote: And if I am, why do I need Repeater? (if I choose to open those porst and I'm using one computer to view many other remote computers, I may just forward those ports/that port directly yo him....
no, in fact you don't understand that when using a Repeater on your LAN, you will only need to open ONE and only ONE port : 5500. The VNC Server will connect on this port BUT GIVEN ALSO AN ID THAT IS MANDATORY.
You also need the SAME ID when launching the viewer. Without this ID, the repeater can't connect the VNC Server with the VNC Viewer.
So if you want to take control of 3 remote PC, you will need to have 3 differents ID, giving one ID for each VNC Server, and you will also need to launch 3 VNC Viewer, each using one of the three ID.
Rnon wrote: I just wanted to understand the concept (and the motivation) better. I feel better somewhat to use a remote server that is protected as a server and is having a static IP anyway.
The way suggested by petoulachi is just what I wanted and the concept really remind the NAT2NAT I was talking about except thise time, I'm hosting the NH - many people were asking for that in the past.
Thank you.
I think that Repeater is not the solution for you, as you seems to need to take remote control whenever you want and without any action of the server. You need to have the VNC Server to wait everytime for a connection, and Repeater is not made for that.

PHW is made to make remote assistance much easier : indeed, to take control of a remote customer PC, it's become much much easier as the customer don't have to configure anything : launch the VNC Server using inverse connection, filling an ID given by the hot line.
Rnon
Posts: 5
Joined: 2007-02-27 11:21

Re: Using repeater on the internet (not DMZ)

Post by Rnon »

Thank you again petoulachi,
I think that Repeater is not the solution for you, as you seems to need to take remote control whenever you want and without any action of the server. You need to have the VNC Server to wait everytime for a connection, and Repeater is not made for that.
Actually no - I didn't make myself clear enough.
To UVNC in my own LAN is the best solution as is
AND to support other people, the PHW is just what I wanted - I DON'T want to create a major security risk to someone I'd like to help... I wanted it to be just like the NAT2NAT except I was hoping I can host the server = Just what I was looking for :wink:
petoulachi
8
8
Posts: 20
Joined: 2007-02-18 11:22

Re: Using repeater on the internet (not DMZ)

Post by petoulachi »

Well, so for support Repeater is I think the best solution (I use it :D ).

So you will have to install repeater on your server, configure your router to redirect the 5500 TCP port, and configure the Repeater to use only mode 2.

That's all !
Rnon
Posts: 5
Joined: 2007-02-27 11:21

Re: Using repeater on the internet (not DMZ)

Post by Rnon »

thanks

the only drawback is (that's what I was reading in the forum) that using mode2, the traffic goes through the Repeater rather than using the repeater to initiate the connection.

If I'm not wrong, the NH (Nat Helper - the former solution) used to only initiate the connection between the two then they connect directly (we only need the Repeater because the server cannot init the connection to a viewer behind NAT).
petoulachi
8
8
Posts: 20
Joined: 2007-02-18 11:22

Re: Using repeater on the internet (not DMZ)

Post by petoulachi »

Yeap that's it, but if the repeater is on your LAN it's not really a problem.
Rnon
Posts: 5
Joined: 2007-02-27 11:21

Re: Using repeater on the internet (not DMZ)

Post by Rnon »

Using the Repeater on your own LAN, ther is no issue of monthly traffic not and issue of speed.
But having the Repeater on a remote web server, you have both monthly traffic issue and probably speed.

Personaly,
I don't like the idea of open oprts in my LAN
I don't like too much the idea of a machine that needs to be always on to be able to use such service, especially when most machines that are always on for network services (file server etc) are the LAST machines I'd like to constantly open port to.

So, if I'm using remote Apache server anyway that was build to give services to any unexpected guest with a lot of security that is being tested and checked worldwide... what can I tell you... if feels somehow better and right to use that machine for that purpose.

If anyone have information/experience about the bandwidth needed for the Repeater, I'd really like to hear about it (maybe not sucha big issue after all).
kaldag
Former moderator
Former moderator
Posts: 179
Joined: 2005-12-13 17:36
Location: Washington, Il
Contact:

Re: Using repeater on the internet (not DMZ)

Post by kaldag »

I have been using a repeater on a old box that is on a 2meg connection. When monitoring CPU usage it is around a whole 1 percents usage. I will be guessing at bandwith usage but this box when tested has less than a meg through put since it is on a old slow hub of the main router. So the long and short is the repeater uses very little resources that I have experienced.

Ken
Post Reply