problems with WIN98 SE SC

sgp · Post by **sgp** » 2005-10-10 06:25

Is anyone doing win98 SC to winXP winvnc successfully?

In my case:

custom SC 1.0 running on WIN98 SE, connecting to winXP SP2 uvnc 1.01
the connection is started, winXP accepts it and shows prompt, SC minimizes to system tray, I click OK to winXP prompt, quick flash on the winXP screen but then nothing else happens. winvnc keeps listening on winXP and after 4-5 minutes winvnc crashes (MS error reporting dialog is shown).

Same custom SC 1.0 running on winXP and same network doesn't have any problems connecting to same winvnc.

What can I do to troubleshoot?

bevtech · Post by **bevtech** » 2005-10-10 12:46

Are you using encryption??

If so, Make sure that your windows98 machine is logged into with an account. There has been some talk in the forum that win98 machines have to be logged into an account for the encryption engine to work properly.

sgp · Post by **sgp** » 2005-10-10 16:06

thanks. no I'm not using encryption. the win98 pc is doing autologon though - maybe that can be a problem too? but I'm definitely not using encryption.

Guest · Post by **Guest** » 2005-10-10 16:19

I have the same problem, listener is WinXP Pro SP2, and can connect using SC from any machine running XP or 2K with no problems yet, but every machine running Win98 I have tried gets the same result as the original poster. I have tried rebuilding the SC without encryption and setting my listener up as non encrypted, same result. Tried rebuilding the SC with the R23 builder, but got the same result (left encryption off for this test just in case).

Anyone have any suggestions?

bevtech · Post by **bevtech** » 2005-10-11 12:53

Windows 98 code didnt follow rules.. SC does work great to XP listener

I will do some testing on a windows 98 FE pc and post my results under this topic. I only use windows XP Pro and Windows 2003 server in my lan so I will be a good candidate for testing...

It maybe a day or two sometimes I get really swamped.

sgp · Post by **sgp** » 2005-10-12 06:22

It isn't related to autologon. I tried another win98se and this one did work.
I can't say why SC works on one win98se PC and not on the other.
The one that doesn't work has all MS updates from windowsupdate.com installed.
The one that does work is win98SE but a liter version, no updates from windowsupdate.com and in fact customized with win98lite.

bevtech · Post by **bevtech** » 2005-10-13 15:41

I did an install on windows 98 FE today.

Got .exe from sourceforge.net (1.01 the newest stable version)
Installed it with all defaults on a clean install of windows no vnc before.
Set the password for classic VNC auth.
Started the vncserver

Went to my Windows Media Center (windows XP pro is the same thing just a few more micro$oft toys) pc and put in the ip address of the win98
box. I unchecked my msrc plugin because I mostly use encryption.

Logged right into the win98fe box and worked like a champ

I am going to do a windows 98SE soon I just need the space on my workbench sorry for the delay but I have been swamped this week..

Got some room now followed the same procedure as above excpect this machine has been running for on the same win98se for over 4-5 years.
Runs like a champ.. No encryption..

I did use the msrc4 plugin v 1.1.8.0 that is under the plugin directory in UltraVNC Folder. Copied it to the UltraVNC folder. Generated a key. Rename key to rc4.key Copied the key to the server and viewer UltraVNC folder. Checked use the plugin on both the server and viewer.

Presto the encryption works like a champ with no slowdown. I went back and forth from a XP box to a win98 Box. No problem. Went from the win98 boxes FE and SE to a Windows XP box no problem

Just make sure that the encryption is checked and using the same type on both the viewer and the server dont try to use a noreg and reg together. Make sure that the key file is on both the viewer and the server.

And please besure to either stop and start the winvnc service or kill the server and restart when making changes with plugins. That is the only way to make them work properly. Dont create a new key and expect it to work without stopping the vncserver and restarting it...

Works great..

Ultra VNC is awesome...

sgp · Post by **sgp** » 2005-10-13 20:29

Hi bevtech, thanks for trying so hard to reproduce this problem.
I understand you did a straight vncviewer to winvnc connection from a window media center pc to a win98fe and win98se pc using encryption, and that it worked.
However, the problem I, and Guest, reported is different, I think.
It's an SC to vncviewer connection from a win98se pc to a winxp pro sp2 pc without encryption.
I don't know ultravnc well enough to be able to say that the scenario you played isn't equivalent to the one I played, but it certainly is described in a very different way.
Please don't be put off, I really appreciate your taking the time, but I'm not sure that we've got any conclusive data on this issue.
One thing I don't understand from your message is whether you're saying that using encryption is a requirement for this configuration to work.
I don't use encryption between winxp pcs with SC and it works fine.
thanks

bevtech · Post by **bevtech** » 2005-10-14 13:33

Gotcha I do that type of connection through a repeater and I use encryption.

So you want me to test a SC connection without encryption to a repeater or directly to an XP box viewer??

I can do it both ways a post results...

not a problem on this end just let me know what you want tested and i will try to reproduce the problem...

Encryption is not a requirement I use it for security purposes. I dont want WAN users to view my data ( or clients screen imgages )on the internet

SC is based off of the same vncsever file. a lot of users seem to be having problems with windows 98 boxes with the new version of VNC and I am trying to reproduce the problems to see if they are OS issues or maybe there 98 boxes have some random features from running all these years.

I use a repeater for all of my SC connections that way I only forward 5500 to my repeater and I have the port forwarding on a schedule so that it isnt open all of the time...

I understand that you are frustrated and I take no offence to you email at all..

The first time when I started using Ultra VNC it took me about 2 weeks to get all the information I needed to make it work for my case. It is a great product and I mostly use it dailey...

If you want me to test something let me know

Take Care all,

Bevtech

sgp · Post by **sgp** » 2005-10-14 20:31

Bevtech, thanks! I share your enthusiasm for UltraVNC, I think it is a great product backed by a great team. And I especially value the team's willingness and ability to experiment with add-ons that vastly enhance the usefulness of vnc.

bevtech wrote: So you want me to test a SC connection without encryption to a repeater or directly to an XP box viewer??

I'm having problems w/o encryption directly to an xp box viewer. Can you test it?

bevtech wrote: Encryption is not a requirement I use it for security purposes. I dont want WAN users to view my data ( or clients screen imgages )on the internet

Niether do I, but the first time I used encryption I could get the plugin to work because it insisted searching for the plugin in the wrong, non-existent installation path, so I gave up. I should go back and try again...

bevtech wrote: a lot of users seem to be having problems with windows 98 boxes with the new version of VNC and I am trying to reproduce the problems to see if they are OS issues or maybe there 98 boxes have some random features from running all these years.

In my case, I can get SC to work with an "almost clean" win98lite installation, but not with a "veteran" windowsupdate.com fully-patched win98.

bevtech wrote: I understand that you are frustrated and I take no offence to you email at all.. The first time when I started using Ultra VNC it took me about 2 weeks to get all the information I needed to make it work for my case. It is a great product and I mostly use it dailey...

I use it daily, too. I'm very happy with it, but to tell you the truth I still don't know if and how it can help me in the configuration that I care the most. My ISP assigns me a private IP address behind a NAT and pools a bunch of private addresses into a single publich IP out in the internet. Add firewalls on the clients' side and mine. I want to know if uvnc+add-ons can connect in this situation. I think not, but NAT-to-NAT, SC, SCIII got me to wonder that maybe it is possible. Then when I read the forum postings people don't seem to be that successful, and nobody describes a configuration like the one I'm interested in --or I just don't understand well enough what they're doing.

Anyway, thanks for your new tests and for sharing your experience.

bevtech · Post by **bevtech** » 2005-10-15 04:25

I will test SC no/ en direct to the XP box be glad to do it for you
but your ISP I think is causing you all of the grief.

You are natted right down to your router. You dont have a public IP address.

They are controlling all of the ports in and out of your network.

hmm..
The only thing that i can think of to tell you is see if the common ports are still somewhat open port 80 almost has to be 110 is email port 443 is most likely port 21 for ftp maybe.

You can also see if your isp can set you with a public IP even if it is dynamic you can use dynamic dns services to. I have never came accross ISP's doing that in my area. I know that comcast, verizon, alltel all use public addressing.

There has been some talk of using an http starter i saw it mentioned in the forum for really tuff firewalls.

Can you change ISP's ???:D

Dwalf · Post by **Dwalf** » 2005-10-15 07:47

bevtech wrote:I will test SC no/ en direct to the XP box be glad to do it for you
but your ISP I think is causing you all of the grief.
Can you change ISP's ???:D

Hi all, you can check to see if your ports are blocked from online.

http://www.canyouseeme.org

cheers
Dwalf

bevtech · Post by **bevtech** » 2005-10-15 13:35

Dwalf,
Thanks for the tool very nice indeed..

sgp · Post by **sgp** » 2005-10-16 07:51

bevtech wrote:You are natted right down to your router. You dont have a public IP address.

They are controlling all of the ports in and out of your network.

hmm..
The only thing that i can think of to tell you is see if the common ports are still somewhat open port 80 almost has to be 110 is email port 443 is most likely port 21 for ftp maybe.

You can also see if your isp can set you with a public IP even if it is dynamic you can use dynamic dns services to.

My ISP sucks, I know. The connection is very high-speed, but it keeps me locked in a box. Can't change it ATM.

For the SC test case, both client and server stay within my ISP's network and have a private IP address, so I'm not going through the NATs. That works fine winxp to winxp.

But for the general case "from/to my ISP's network to/from the open internet through NATs" the only solution - I guess, is for winvnc and wncviewer to both "meet" at a "vnc connector" (what might that be?) out on the internet. I've used this imprecise terminology because I don't understand if the various flavors of vnc add-ons can do what I'm describing here.

I checked the port open tool and none of the common ports seem to be open

sgp · Post by **sgp** » 2005-10-24 07:36

while troubleshooting this problem (still open) I noticed 2 more general bugs. I'm using SC based on vnc 1.01.

background: with my SC, the connection req to the listening viewer works, but then the actual connection isn't established. this is not the bug I want to talk about, but this behavior uncovers the bug.

Step 1: start the listening viewer on PC A, start SC on PC B, double click on SC window to connect B to A, A displays prompt, OK this prompt, B minimizes SC window to tray, but no connection is established. viewer is still running on A. So now basically you have an unconnected winvncSC on PC B and a vncviewer on PC A.

At this point, presumably the support person on A will say, "click on SC again". So:

Step 2: click on SC again on PC B. Since SC is already running (minimized therfore hardly noticeable) you get an error dialog "winvnc usage: -connect ip-address:5500 -noregistry" (or whatever is your customized launch line)". this totally throws off the user, I think. SC should say instead "another instance of SC is already running please close it" - This to me is bug #1, and there's more...

...the connection req dialog is displayed again on PC A, click OK, after a varying time delay vncviewer crashes on PC A - This is bug #2.

And I still haven't found out why the connection from A to B fails

bevtech · Post by **bevtech** » 2005-10-24 14:29

Man I was hoping you got it going. Single click can only run once on a pc at a time. So if it is still running and you try to open it again you will probably get an error and the AP may crash.

Single click by default uses port 5500 so port 5500 has to be open on your viewer pc

Think of it as a phone number you have a send and a recieve.. on pc ports it is transit and recieve or (listen). So if I am understanding you correctly you have to created a SC.exe and you can not get it to work..

Dwalf wrote an very good document on this..
Step by Step SC
[topic=4606][/topic]

I know this has been giving you grief trust me I have been there it took me a week or two to get my first SC connection going.

Did you get your Router or Ports issue resolved???

sgp · Post by **sgp** » 2005-10-26 07:32

bevtech wrote:So if I am understanding you correctly you have to created a SC.exe and you can not get it to work..

Not at all. SC works fine on all PCs I tried. It's only on this particular win98se PC that it doesn't work. I just reformatted the PC, reinstalled win98se and all recommended windows updates including IE 6.0, installed zonealarm free, tried SC and it fails exactly as before. Again, this SC.exe works fine on all other PCs I tried, including a win98se that doesn't have all recommended windows updates.

Did you get your Router or Ports issue resolved???

No, but that's another (sad) story - it doesn't affect above issue.

davidyork · Post by **davidyork** » 2005-11-09 21:48

I have the same problem with win98.
It only happens with a fast PC's like P4 nortwood 3,00 G. We dont know why. When runs with anothers PC's slowers like P I,II, III or in old's P4, it works fine.
In My work we are waiting last version of UltraVNC to try if this bug is arranged.

davidyork@wanadoo.es

sgp · Post by **sgp** » 2005-11-09 22:21

Does your win98 pc with this issue prompt for a windows startup password or is the password turned off/bypassed? In my case the win98 pc with problems has an empty password - so there's no startup prompt. I read somewhere in this forum that that can be a problem.

Guest · Post by **Guest** » 2005-11-09 23:02

My win98 instalation is simple and basic. i have a ghost image win98 that we install in alls PC's . We use remote call UltraVnc service (port 5500). When win98 is a ultravnc server, in another PC viewer we see a flash screen and never conected, anothers a windows system errors. Our conclusion is that only happens in fast PC (last generations) or in a specified hard PC. For more precission say you is in a Asus P4P800-VM with PIV 3.00 and single 256 DDR ¿?

octech · Post by **octech** » 2005-11-13 12:47

It seems to me that the steps needed to test if clients can connect to me, through my router, should be outlined here. I drafted a little procedure that might be useful to others. (however in my case I am only at step B).

Is this a good procedure to follow?

DEBUG PROCEDURE

a) I set up the port forwarding on my router as described at www.portforward.com, to route any incoming connection thru port 5500 (the default port that a client running SC will use) to my internal win2k/winxp machine (192.168.x.3:port) running ultravnc

b) I go to http://www.canyouseeme.org/ and see if anything is on port 5500. It most likely tells me:

Error: I could not see your service on xxx.xxx.186.146 on port (5500)

c) okay, so let's try something a bit easier before getting the VNC handshake working. So I go to http://www.brownbearsoftware.com/ and install ical (I use version 3.9)

d) Now I set up another port forwarding so that if requests to http://xxx.xxx.186.146 are routed to port 80 internally on local machine 192.168.x.3:port

e) try http://www.canyouseeme.org/ again but use port 80

f) If it works, and port 80 is open, then from anywhere on the internet I should be able to type http://xxx.xxx.186.146 and see my ical calendar.

g) okay, if port 80 works now let's try port 5580 for ical, just switch it in my port forwarding setup in the router.

h) try http://www.canyouseeme.org/ again but use port 5580

if it works, then try http://xxx.xxx.186.146:5580 to connect to the iCal from anywhere on the internet.

if it doesn't work, then there must be a problem with a firewall on the internal machine blocking port 5580.

i) if internal machine is WinXP, I can fix this in my SP2 firewall settings, I guess. There is a security manager built into XP that tells me what the firewall is.

j) if internal machine is Win2000, I guess there is no firewall by default?
same with win98? And if this is the case, I need to see if zonealarm or macafee are blocking my port 5580. how can I tell if these products are installed?

some feedback would be appreciated!

-rich

bevtech · Post by **bevtech** » 2005-11-13 16:19

Can you guys upgrade to windows 2000 or Windows XP??? I am afraid that m$ is going to kill windows 98 very very soon.

You could also switch to RC 18 and use that instead of Ultra VNC 1.0.1 the SC may not work but I think it is very stable with 98 and I do believe includes a mirror driver.

I know it should work but I am curious why you are running windows 98 on P4 machines?? P1, PII and PIII I can understand but why P4. I know that microsoft prices are high and I think it may be due to all of the theft in China, Russia and elsewhere around the world. I think that you can buy XP Upgrade for around $100.00 USD. Windows 98SE is stable but is over 6 years old now. A lot of software venders are starting to kill support for it in the United States ( I am not sure about the rest of the world) but if anti viruses make it end of life.. You might be forced to Upgrade.

I use SC on windows 98 machines but my viewers and repeaters are all on Windows XP Pro Workstations.. I have run test on windows 98 FE and SE and they do communicate with an Windows XP box. I have installed the viewer on a windows 98 machine and viewed a windows XP box. So I am not sure why it will not work for you guys..

There has to be something causing it..

I only wish we knew what..

eventhorizon · Post by **eventhorizon** » 2007-03-26 12:11

Hi @ all!
I (still) have the problem:

HOST (viewer) XP SP2 - Client (SC) WIN98SE

1. Client tries to connect -> Popup on host -> press OK to connect.
2. Client minimizes SC to tray; On the host nothing more happens so the viewer is still running as an icon.

Has anyone an idea for a solution? Works on other computers with win98se, winxp,...

Greetings EH

pokai · Post by **pokai** » 2007-10-25 13:41

Hi,

i spend the whole day to find a clue for this problem on my machine.
I've got a new pc with via chipset an integrated S3-VGA.

Now i've turned of the S3-VGA an installed an old ATI-PCI card.
And wonder wonder, it works.

PS:
I love via since a couple of years ..rrrrr...!

UltraVNC

problems with WIN98 SE SC

problems with WIN98 SE SC

debugging incoming conn. problem

Re: problems with WIN98 SE SC

Re: problems with WIN98 SE SC