uvnc + ATI software = broken OS/MSI Service

[shadowspawn]

Something about the ultravnc service and ATI software (using installshield installer) completely breaks an OS and renders it unusable.

I will post the dxdiag.txt later on, but here's the low-down on what brings me to this conclusion and easily repeated steps; this will happen no matter how patched the system is; this is just a simple procedure to repeat it.

Install XP Pro integrated SP1. Install UVNC from start->run, install just the server service, configure it, connect to it remotely. (doesn't matter if you reboot or not)

Through a remote, install ATI MMC components off of the CD that comes with any AIW 9xxx series or just the latest catalyst drivers (with wmd) off of ATI's website. Reboot.

Result: All MSI services will now fail. no more add/remove software functions work through appwiz.cpl. "Reinstalling" MSI (using unregister/register, system restore by renaming msi service dll's and exe's in safe mode, etc) does not work. The system will function normally, however the MSI service is ganked and cannot be fixed.

One could play the blame game with ATI's vs UVNC's installers, however I haven't had time to run systernals filemon/regmon to see who's at fault. Using an older version of UVNC (before "vid" drivers were installed), or RealVNC, after a virgin boot does not produce the symptoms.

It's also notable that a previous version of the "driver helper" would BSOD an ATI AIW using the TV/S-Video out in XP or W2k, easily remidied by booting in safe mode and uninstalling the driver helper. (I call it the driver helper because I don't remember what it was officially called.)

Dunno why, dunno how. I didn't get a chance to get the api installer logs, so I don't know where it's happening except that it _does_ happen. I've noticed that on another server that Site Server 3.0 will produce errors while installing... using UVNC's latest, resulting in strange behaviours with the service with invalid column names in catalogs and whole mmc snapins not installing correctly (MSI service is fine tho) w2k adv server fully patched. RealVNC doesn't produce that particular problem either.

My guess: the latest UVNC is interrupting, redirecting, protecting, or most likely locking files it shouldn't be, causing some installshield scripts that are attempting to install components to bail without any warning, corrupting the MSI database and rendering the core OS unusable.

[mod=494,1123181431]moved from Bugs Rel1.00 to General help, reason: APC Powerchute software outdated[/mod]

[redge]

Result: All MSI services will now fail. no more add/remove software functions work through appwiz.cpl. "Reinstalling" MSI (using unregister/register, system restore by renaming msi service dll's and exe's in safe mode, etc) does not work. The system will function normally, however the MSI service is ganked and cannot be fixed.

- You need the new Windows Installer 3.1 V2 fix (KB893803)
http://support.microsoft.com/kb/898628

but I don't understand that due of UltraVNC installer ! Why ?
UltraVNC use InnoSetup, NOT Microsoft Installer.
possibility happen if you have your own personalized setup script using MSI


- Where you take your latest UltraVNC ? from safe source ?

so 50'000 download of UVNC (4 days)
I think we obtain a more list of complaint setup fail if really happen.

I suggest to let your post here until somebody have an ATI video card and reproduce your step by step.

[shadowspawn]

but I don't understand that due of UltraVNC installer ! Why ?
UltraVNC use InnoSetup, NOT Microsoft Installer.

nah not the UVNC installer package, didn't mean to imply that. I get it right off of a direct link and it's a trusted src.

(the msi patch isn't relevant to the W2K siteserver install, btw. using RealVNC worked fine)

but something while using UVNC will break MSI installer.

I wouldn't watch for just ATI, i'd watch for any installer not working.

I'll test (after the weekend) installing the image, then the MSI patch, then UVNC, then ATI components and see if the MSI patch stops the failures. I have as much interest in this as anyone; since it's already deployed on a few machines that have ATI drivers on them, and need to make sure that it's not UVNC before someone tries to upgrade the drivers while connected via UVNC.

[Rudi De Vos]

It could be a driver issue...

If driver version is from before RC18......driver can not be upgraded.
The drivers from <RC18 need to by uninstalled before you can run the installer of the new version.
Driver from RC18> are installed /upgraded by setupdrv.exe.
Upgrade require a reboot, the installer only schedule the upgrade to happen on next boot.

I don't think you can run setupdrv -install followed by a MSI install
without a reboot between.

ATI==video driver
setupdrv==video driver
I guess that both versions make an update schedule for next boot, you just can't replace a video driver while he is loaded.

[netwolf]

Hmm, I just recently performed a remote upgrade of my workstation using UVNC 1.0, and I also upgraded the ATI drivers of this PC.

I didn't use the original ATI drivers but used the Omega drivers instead, but IIRC they also use the MSI installer.

No problems at all.

However, I also experienced those nasty MSI problems earlier (unrelated to UVNC), and AFAIR I solved them by completely removing everything releated to several version of MSI and reinstalling (several versions of) MSI (and also some registry editing etc.).

It's really a pain to get this right again

[MC]

Hi All,

Firstly, thanks for a terrific program.

Something about the ultravnc service and ATI software (using installshield installer) completely breaks an OS and renders it unusable.

I hope I'm on track with this thread but I've had a similar problem with a spam new install of Win2k Pro SP3 patched to SP4. I'm running the latest catalyst driver 5.6 (6.14.10.6542) on an AIW Radeon 7200. The problem I'm seeing is a lock on parts of the registry when a user attempts to log out. Windows Event Viewer - Event ID 1000, Source UserEnv:

Windows cannot unload your registry file. If you have a roaming profile, your settings are not replicated. Contact your administrator.

DETAIL - Access is denied. , Build number ((2195)).

http://www.eventid.net/display.asp?even ... nv&phase=1 shows several reports including old problems associated with realvnc and tightvnc.

I installed on an ABit TH7-II RAID as follows: Win2K Pro SP3 (with Highpoint Raid driver 2.35), Intel INF Update, all current critical Windows Updates (as of last Saturday), Intel Application accelerator, Video driver - no media centre components, Realtek audio drivers and then all the applications. All was well until UltraVNC - the last to be installed (I
was doing it alphabetically!).

My recollection of what happened is vague, I'm afraid. I installed VNC as a service and selected set Admin properties but I don't remember being prompted to set the properties. On next boot, uVNC mentioned that the admin password had not been set and something like it was policy that I could not set it. Either on this boot or the next, the user's desktop settings were not loaded on login but when I closed the service (right-clicking on the systray icon), the settings immediately 'sprung to life' with revised desktop colours, etc. It certainly looked like uVNC was responsible for the locking. I've stopped runnnign uVNC as a service and there have been no more registry locks. However, I am still getting some warning messages from MSI (Event 1015, Source: MSiInstaller "Failed to connect to server. Error: 0x800401F0" but I think this is an MS Office issue ).

The reason for the new build was that the registry was eventually screwed (OS would boot ok but user settings were lost). I had been having the registry lock for a couple of weeks along with the added complication of a silently dying hard disk (now replaced). It may have started under build RC205 -- I *think* all was well under RC18.

I should add that I have another machine, same OS, with an AIW 7200 Radeon with a less recent catalyst 5.4 (6.14.10.6525) which has *not* shown any of these problems.

I'm sorry much of this is on the vague side and I wont be able to look into it for at least a week -- unless my machine starts dying again, in which case I'll have a heart attack (and I'll be facing a more serious deadline)

Cheers, Martin

[MikeInUK]

Hi,
I have the same problem as discussed in this thread.
I have ATI drivers and after installing UltraVNC I can no longer access large parts of the operating system and serives will not stop or start.
I have uninstalled UltraVNC but it hasnt helped

I will appreciate any suggestions you have for getting it working again, as I can no longer backup the system

It is a Windows 2k server

regards

Mike

[MikeInUK]

Hi,

if I uninstall the ATI drivers and change the graphics card do you think this could help get the system and services running?

I am nervous about trying it in case the server is then unbootable

regards

Mike

[shadowspawn]

I couldn't solve it, I had a ghost image next to me so I could at least figure out what's causing it and if it did it with earlier versions, etc.

See the thing is, UVNC broke, RealVNC AND the an older UVNC _without the driver helpers_ didn't. The driver helpers would BSOD on an ATI with the version of UVNC I had, really old when the driver helpers were just introduced. That's something right there to go on. Now listen, this is only a thought, but that optional "Driver Helper" _did_ BSOD quite a few ATI's in the gaming scene, but it was easily fixed by booting into safe mode and removing em.

So since RealVNC and UVNC are using the same basic code and you know it's not because of anything related whatsoever to the GUI, it has to be system hooks.

I think it's a combination of the Driver Helper screwing things up, ATI's MSI bailing on a fail but not notifying MSI, and MSI getting a corrupt db so it will refuse to open.

RealVNC doesn't do it. UVNC does. it's easily repeatable for me, and I tried the MSI patch before doing the last shot... then fianally testing with RealVNC for kicks and giggles. (this whole matter intrigued me since we use UVNC in allot of situations and scenarios, and I'd rather figure it out before someone needs to actually visit someplace. My decision just means someone's gotta be on-site and _never_ do vid updates with it; in RealVNC days it was that way with anything cause of cringes remembering PCAnywhere days)

I contacted ATI and got an email from them, their recomendations were to uninstall the drivers then reinstall the drivers. the irony meter pretty much went pegged in the red for ATI, they failed to keep in mind that the installer service was broken; I replied back with the original quote that mentioned the MSI was broken and haven't recieved a reply.

I tried every trick in the book, Deleting files forcing a file restore, it didn't make any difference, going hammers-to-hell with permissions on files and keys didn't do anything. Since the installer service was broken nothing could be "re-installed" using anything related with MSI except direct, extracted files.... Stuck.

The only solution to figure out what it is with this case is to back up a broken hive and file index... and compare it to a good hive and file index at the same stage if it is indeed a file or reg entry, and at the same time monitor the whole install process with Systernal's Filemon before it cans the system.

I've never, ever had problems with installing UVNC and it's an awesome app, except for the "tracker" of opening that damn ftp site when you are on a walled system.

[MikeInUK]

Thanks for your reply.

[wckdwld47]

Has anyone been able to fix this yet? I am having similar problems in that since upgrading to 1.0 services will no longer start or stop. I can also no longer install anything that is an msi installer. I have tried uninstalling uvnc and reg clean, but no luck. I am guessing that whatever is causing this is also preventing vnc from being installed as a service. But what could it be?


wckd

[MikeInUK]

.

[wckdwld47]

Mike,
I agree that it does stop more than just the installer. It has three of my servers gooned up at the moment. It hasn't caused any major problems as yet (knock wood), other than I can't open network properties and recycle bin, along with not being able to install anything and not being able to start or stop services. All of the services that I need to function are functioning and will stop and start on reboot. I am going to keep playing with these things and trying to get it working and will post if I come up woth anything. Please do the same if you come up with any leads/clues/fix. Anyone else out there tha could lend a hand?

Shawn

[MikeInUK]

Hi,
I guess the fact that the services initially start and then won't respond could be a clue that they are failing AFTER something else has been loaded ?
Maybe it is possible to do a diagnostic start up and work out what is breaking it ? Possibly a dll or something has been overwritten ?

I removed al the ATI drivers and Uvnc but it didnt undo the problem.
I can't experiment too much as I am worried I will break the database completely, but if I find anything I will let you know.

[Rudi De Vos]

If the driver is causing the issue's, just remove vncdrv.sys (system32/driver)
After this file is gone, the mirror video driver will no longer startup
on boot.

But i'm realy not sure it has something to do with ultravnc.
After 200.000 downloads i problem like this: "making system unusable"
would haved certain been send to this forum.
It is always possible that it only happen in combination with certain ati software possible in combination with other...hard to trace or debug.


After searching the internet
-The ati hotkey poller seems to have a general problem with
mirror drivers and multi video card systems when both are not ATI.
In that case, make sure the ati2evxx.exe is not started....
If you have that exe running, you could try to rename it and reboot.
On my System however, i run the ati hotkey poller together with the mirror driver, but it is an older video card using atiptaxx.exe app.
(Rage pro)

-Runonce key
Windows 2000/XP has a bug that it cannot properly detect new hardware by *.inf files, if the RunOnce registry key is missing. This key is often used by installers to execute post-reboot programs, but sometimes they accidentally delete this key. Solution:
Click Start Run and enter regedit
Open the registry tree HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SOFTWARE\Microsoft\Windows\CurrentVersion
Select CurrentVersion
Select Edit New Key
Name the key RunOnce, leaving everything else about the key alone
The RunOnce key should now exist underneath the CurrentVersion key. Once the key exists, Windows 2000/XP stops redetecting the Hardware
Without this key MSI can also run in trouble.
-W2k upgrade software was also updated last month. You never know what the new MS updater does.

[wckdwld47]

Rudi and Mike,

Good points made by both. Rudi, Windows updates was run on these servers yesterday as well as the update to uVNC (not at the same time). I did not notice any problems with the machines until after the VNC update though. That is not say that it wasn't there before, but that is when I noticed it. These servers also are running older ATi drivers (they are Rage XL cards). I just tried a restore of the system state from a couple of days ago with no luck. Mike, I understand where you are coming from by not wanting to fool around too much with that machine, two of my three here are in that situation. It just so happens that the third is relatively unimportant (relatively!) so I am afforded the opportunity to fiddle with it.

Shawn

[MikeInUK]

Thanks for the suggestions I will give it a go tomorrow.

I think it is too much of a coincidence that we all have exactly the same problem with services unable to start and stop and the MSI malfunctioning after we installed UVNC on an ATI graphics card system.
I have never seen a problem like this before and have worked in IT for many years.

regards

Mike

[wckdwld47]

Rudi,

I have tried everything you have suggested. At least those things which were available. The RunOnce was there, there is no vncdrv file in system32/drivers, and the ATi file is not running. I appreciate the ideas though, at least its something. I will keep trying


Shawn

[Rudi De Vos]

When the vncdrv.sys is not present, the mirror driver can not be the issue.
Without this file the mirror driver never gets loaded.

If there was some part that can give conflicts with ati i would suspect that it was the driver.

Does the vnccom.sys exist ?
This is the communication service used by the driver, but with a dependency set on vncdrv.sys. No mirror driver, no communication service gets started.

[wckdwld47]

vnccom.sys does exist, though I don't know if it is trying to load or be loaded or not. I just finished manually going through the registry, backing up and removing anything with *vnc*, and it looks like that made no difference either. I can't think of any reason why this would occur...


Shawn

[MikeInUK]

Yes, previously I uninstalled uVNC, deleted all the files I could find with VNC in them and unistalled the ATI drivers too but it didnt fix it.

Whatever it has changed occured as soon as I installed uVNC with the video hook, I think I have a ATI Rage XL card too.
I guess it has altered something else. Have you tried starting in safe mode etc ?

[wckdwld47]

No, I haven't tried starting in safe mode yet. Haven't had the opportunity. Even though that server is not as important as the others, I can't have it offline for more than a few minutes at a time (long enough to reboot). I hope to be able to do that tomorrow after hours at the latest. I am wondering if doing a repair on the OS would fix it. I may set up another win2k server tomorrow if I can and try to replicate the problem on it as well to see if that would fix the issue. If I can't set up new hardware, I will create a new server in my test lab using VMWare and try that. I will keep you posted.


Shawn

[wckdwld47]

I have found the fix! At least for my situation, and hopefully yours too Mike and shadow. Well, I didn't find it, the good folks from the Microsoft newgroups pointed me to it. Do your machines have APC PowerChute version 6.x installed? If so, uninstall it and reboot. That was my problem. It has to do with Java Cryptography Extension expiring. This is from Veritas as it can also effect Backup Exec too, at least thats what I gather. Here is the post it came from...

> Hello Jim, George and others,
>
> Had the same problem and found the cause: it was the APC-powerchute
> software. See:
>
> http://nam-en.apc.com/cgi-bin/nam_en.cf ... faqid=7202
>
> Hope this helps,

-also-

Found the Veritas email warning of Java Cryptography Extension expiring,
in fact was for Backup Exec for NetWare servers 9.1 -
http://seer.support.veritas.com/docs/278129.htm.

Anyway, I hope this does the trick for everyone. I apologize to the great people here at UltraVNC, that was a nasty coincidence. Keep up the great work on a terrific product!

Shawn

[MikeInUK]

Hi,
yes I do have APS installed, can you tell me how you uninstalled it as I cant access programs add/remove etc

thanks

Mike

[wckdwld47]

Mike,
On two of my servers I was able to access control panel and uninstall from there. On the third, I downloaded version 7.0.4 of the APC PowerChute Business Edition from APC, started the install and then cancelled it when it popped up saying that there was another action running and it would start when that action had finished (or something to that effect). I then opened up Services and double clicked on the APC BPE Agent to open its properties and waited for a few minutes. It eventually stopped and then I was able to open control panel and add/remove programs and uninstall the APC software.

Hope that helps!

Shawn

[MikeInUK]

Yes you are right it works, thank you very very much for your help.

I would also like to apologise for saying it was uVNC that caused the problem.
What a strange coincidence that 3 of us should install uVNC and then have it break when it was nothing to do with it at all, just did it on the wrong date I guess

So I am very sorry uVNC developers and thanks very much Shawn.


Mike

[Rudi De Vos]

Great,

I was starting feeling bad that our software was possible causing it.
But feel great that this forum is doing his job.


Rudi

[wckdwld47]

Glad to hear that it worked for you Mike! Rudi, it is nice to see that this forum did what it was created to do, help others find answers. Even if the answers had nothing to do with the software the forum is for

Thanks again for all your help and support! And keep up the great work.

Cheers,
Shawn